G: Let’s start with the origin story. Why did you decide to build in this category, and how did Chief get its start?

J: We’re a health food and supplement brand based in Sydney, and our mission is to help people stop eating ultra-processed junk. Most of that junk lives in the snack aisle, so we set out to create a clean, convenient alternative.

The idea came from my co-founders—my wife Libby and Veronica—who are both health professionals. Their clients kept asking, “What can I snack on?” And their answer was always, “Chop up some carrots.” But no one wants to hear that. They want something convenient, tasty, and actually good for them. The problem was, a lot of what’s marketed as “healthy” is still ultra-processed. So we decided to fix that.

We landed on beef as our first hero ingredient—it’s one of the best ways to deliver high-protein, low-carb snacks with a clean label. We launched with a bar similar to the Epic Bar in the US, and now we’ve expanded into nut butter–based collagen bars and powders. Everything is super clean, tasty, and designed to actually support your health.

G: You’re launching in the US soon. What differences do you anticipate between the markets?

J: To be honest—we don’t totally know yet! We’ve run tests in the US and the early signals are strong, but everyone says, “Don’t assume what works in Australia will work in the US.” That said, we think the fundamentals are the same, and our product should resonate.

Our approach is to test, move fast, get real data, and adapt. You can theorize all day, but nothing beats real-world feedback.

G: That test-and-learn mindset is so key. Are there any controversial or contrarian views you hold when it comes to building and scaling?

J: A few, probably. From a product standpoint, choosing beef as our starting point was definitely contrarian—especially when the market was moving hard toward plant-based everything. But we believe meat, when sourced and produced responsibly, can be great for both people and the planet. Regenerative agriculture is part of that story.

On the growth side, our approach to budgeting is what raises the most eyebrows. We don’t set a fixed marketing budget. We operate on a MER basis—a Media Efficiency Ratio. For every $1 we spend, we want $6 back. If we’re getting that return, why would we not scale?

So when our chairman asks, “What’s your marketing budget?” I say, “As much as I can spend while maintaining a 6 MER.” If we’re hitting that ratio at $100K/month, why not spend $200K? Or $500K? That approach isn’t how most companies traditionally look at budgets, but in DTC, it works.

G: It’s so logical—and yet many still resist that model. Why do you think that is?

J: Old habits. Before e-comm, marketing wasn’t as measurable. Brands would say, “We’ll spend 20% of projected revenue on marketing,” and then try to make the most of it. But now, especially with direct response advertising, we can measure in real time. You know immediately if your spend is working.

But here’s what’s key: we look at MER across all of online revenue, not just ad-driven sales. That includes email, SMS, subscriptions, affiliates, organic traffic—all of it.

Email alone now makes up 45% of our online revenue. And Ground has been a big part of that. We’re sending more messages, capturing more revenue, and we’re not paying Meta or Google for that bottom-funnel conversion. It’s a game changer.

G: That’s amazing. So you’re calculating MER holistically—not just ads.

J: Exactly. Subscriptions make up about 20% of our revenue, email is 45%, and the rest is ads and other levers. That lets us be profitable while scaling. Our e-comm side is about half the business now, and we only calculate our marketing spend relative to that side.

But of course, our paid ads are driving brand awareness that also lifts our brick-and-mortar sales. So when you look at marketing as a percentage of total revenue, it’s even more efficient. It’s all about how you position it and what lens you’re using.

G:  Earlier you mentioned choosing beef even though it went against trends. Why was that the right move for Chief?

J: We like to zig when others zag. The beef bar space was underserved, especially for people looking for something clean and truly nutritious. Most of what’s out there—even “healthy” snacks—still use vegetable oils, thickeners, gums, or other junk.

We wanted to make something that didn’t just look healthy—it was healthy. Real food, real nutrition. And it’s resonated. We’re proud to have stuck with our values from day one, even when it wasn’t the popular thing to do.

G: What keeps you grounded?

J: My family, 100%. Being able to build this business with my wife and our team, and doing it in a way that aligns with our values—it’s incredibly grounding. Also, surfing helps!